|  | Topic : 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? |  |
| | | Lantesh | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 25/05/2011 | | Posts | : | 243 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Feb 2014 - 01:33 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: satch1961) | | |
satch1961 wrote:
Thanks again Daz. I guess I wasn't sure what had to come first. I think the dealer gave me 20306 which would be for aftermarket pipes on a 1600.
My initial query was whether I had to have a base Triumph 1700 tune (say 20310) BEFORE I did any further custom tuning with Tuneecu. I am still learning this stuff. My backyard mechanic skills only take me so far... 
If he can't give me 20130 Friday I'll try on my own.  |
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I think your dealer must not know what they are doing. They should have never sent you out the door with a 1600 tune. With the 1700 cams you need a 1700 tune with the proper timing tables for those cams. Technically you will be running slightly rich with the 1700 tune on a 1600cc bike, but these tunes are so lean from the factory I don't think that matters all that much. The cam profile on the other hand matters a lot. Now that you have the 1700 cams the timing tables in your 1600 tune are all wrong. Even if you only use the stock 1700 tune as opposed to the 1700 tor tune you will be better off.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Feb 2014 - 05:09 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Lantesh) | | |
Lantesh wrote:
satch1961 wrote:
Thanks again Daz. I guess I wasn't sure what had to come first. I think the dealer gave me 20306 which would be for aftermarket pipes on a 1600.
My initial query was whether I had to have a base Triumph 1700 tune (say 20310) BEFORE I did any further custom tuning with Tuneecu. I am still learning this stuff. My backyard mechanic skills only take me so far...
If he can't give me 20130 Friday I'll try on my own. |
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I think your dealer must not know what they are doing. They should have never sent you out the door with a 1600 tune. With the 1700 cams you need a 1700 tune with the proper timing tables for those cams. Technically you will be running slightly rich with the 1700 tune on a 1600cc bike, but these tunes are so lean from the factory I don't think that matters all that much. The cam profile on the other hand matters a lot. Now that you have the 1700 cams the timing tables in your 1600 tune are all wrong. Even if you only use the stock 1700 tune as opposed to the 1700 tor tune you will be better off. |
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| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | peteronkarra | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 829 | | Location | : | Karragarra Island, Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 26 Feb 2014 - 23:26 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Lantesh) | | | I'd be the last person to defend a so called Truimph service department and I'm not now.
Interesting note regarding downloading tunes however, recently got sent 2 new tunes from tuneboy. One a straight converted triumph tors tune and one a modified one with additional fueling and ignition trims.
Loaded the modified one no problem then noticed a couple of missing options on the tune that were available on the standard one.
Loaded the standard one, OH SHIT. bike no start!!!! bike no do nothing !!!!! None of the Tuneboy programs would connect to the ecu SHIT,SHIT,SHIT
Found a button that said recover after failed download, pressed that, tuneboy reconnects and loads what it called a standard tune.
Says you need to reload correct tune.
Tried again.
SHIT,SHIT,SHIT, bike no start!!!! bike no do nothing !!!!! AGAIN
recoved again and loaded the modified tune, all good.
If a dealer told me this could happen last week, I'd have said " Yeah right, sounds like bullsh to me."
Sadly in the world of black box magic, wierd stuff happens.
Pete
| I sometimes wonder what I"ll do when I grow up.... but not very often
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| | | satch1961 | | Chaac | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/09/2013 | | Posts | : | 583 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 28 Feb 2014 - 22:47 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: peteronkarra) | | | Ahaaaa... yep and pursuant to your story I just came back from my dealer this morning. He asked me to come back so he could give it another shot to remap me with a 1700 tune. He tried and tried with seevral 1700 tunes and finally got one tune to stick but the bike would not hold at idle for more than a minute. He personally tried to load several other 1600 tunes one at a time to see which one would make the bike respond best. He rode the bike after each tune and settled on one that I think is pretty darn smooth. I dont recall which number it is.
At the same time I had him put on my two new Michelin Commander tires. I must say that my bike has never run this smooth and with this much giddyup. He spent alot of time adjusting my throttle response after reloading the tune. The bike is now like snap, crackle and pop with a throaty roar in the engine and incredible, dead solid perfect throttle response. The bike blsters out of the gate like it was running from the cops.
I know dealers get a bad rap sometimes but my guy at Daytona Triumph (Huel Johnson) is an awesome, stand up guy who personnaly got involved and worked hard to make it right.
So shit does happen when you're working with technology that is still not an exact science. Overall I am now 90% happy with my purchase. Of course I would have liked a 1700 map and all that I can do with it. But WTF... my bike is awesome as it is now.
Abd BTW... took the 30 mile ride home and the Commanders are handling everything I throw at them - twisties, corners, abrupt lane changes and so on. This bike is now damn near perfect and rides like a sport bike.
| 2010 1600 with 1700 cams; V4 custom tune; hi-flow filter; short TORS; rivco risers with spacers. Decat with elbows and baffles
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| | | Davisnub | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 13/08/2020 | | Posts | : | 45 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Sep 2020 - 22:05 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: satch1961) | | | just curious, how many people overall had the 1700 cams placed in their 1600 bike and what type of objective performance gains were achieved if any?
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2020 - 00:42 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Davisnub) | | | I know Peteronkarra had the 1700 cams in before he fitted the barrels and pistons, maybe shoot him a PM and he will see the question. I will see him in a couple of days so I will mention it.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | peteronkarra | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 829 | | Location | : | Karragarra Island, Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 26 Sep 2020 - 01:54 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Davisnub) | | | From my experience. My bike went through the progression of std 1600, 1600 with 1700 cams, 1700 with 1700 cams
1700 cams appear to be a cam for better flow in the higher rev range. More lift and duration with a bit more ignition advance on the std 1700 tor map. So.
I found a jump in performance with the 1700 cams in the 1600 the bike was dynoed at that time & I think it was 95 rwhp. Not sure while back. On the road the bike didn't seem to run out of steam so quickly at the upper end of the rev range and was more responsive in the high 2000 to high 3000 rev range.
Eventually I fitted the rest of the big bore kit, pistons and liners.
I've not had the bike tuned or dynoed since then, I use one of Kim's maps from here.
A little while back I got to play with Rabs. His bike is 1600 with 1700 cams to be quite honest there was bugger all in it. The extra 100cc only seemed to make a difference up to about 3000 rpm with maybe 15/20 ft separation. Then the the bikes stayed together. If we started at about 3000 no difference.
Over a quarter mile the 1700 would probably be quicker with similar terminal speeds, but on the road you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
I know this is not a particularly objective answer but that's what I found. This is also the earlier 1700/Storm cams I understand the LT/Commander cams are slightly detuned
| I sometimes wonder what I"ll do when I grow up.... but not very often
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,407 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 26 Sep 2020 - 04:38 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: peteronkarra) | | | Rabs has a weight handicap, just saying.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | DangerMouse | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 28/03/2016 | | Posts | : | 546 | | Location | : | South East, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 12 Nov 2020 - 18:31 Post title : Re: 1700 cams in a 1600 ?? (Re: Leethal) | | | Of course while you're in there uploading maps - there shouldn't be any harm upping the rev limiter 500rpm to make use of the 1700 cams. It's sometimes useful to have a bit more overrev when thrashing around - even if the power's already dropping off.
| Black SuperStorm, shortie TORs, wilbers +10mm shocks, Hagon progressive fork springs, Harrison Billet 6 pots.
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